|
Post by highvoltage988 on Apr 9, 2013 19:53:20 GMT -5
As most of us know, the EUTL took our NATL rules and modified them for their own tournament. I wanted to make this thread comparing the rulesets and determine what, if anything, we could take from their modifications. First off, what I LIKE about their changes - Infiltrator Limit. Teams can only have one INF, meaning teams have to decide between putting and INF on the SEN or having an INF cap. Also would make defense somewhat more aware if and Infiltrator capper was incoming.
- Reach banned. Raises the skill ceiling on cappers, makes HoF bodyblocking more viable (which I think is reasonable considering how much everything else on Defense has been nerfed), and makes flag scrambles more even/exciting (ie a chaser or a defender isn't punished by not taking Reach)
Now for what I DISLIKE about EU rules: - Kept SEN Claymores. I like the way we have it, where ALL static defensive mines are gone. Raises skill ceiling, etc etc
- Ban Infiltrator's Stealth Spinfusor. I don't think INF capping is out of control in the NA scene to the point where we need to nerf it by removing the SSF. I think the INF could use the burst damage for taking out defenses.
- Safety Third ban. There is already a thread here about this, and I agree with what Bowie has been saying there: Safety Third isn't so out of control that it needs removal.
- Map Pool. EU has XFire in their rotation, which if anyone saw Vertigo vs idk?, was a boring stalemate that finally ended at 1-0. Granted, their ruleset and meta is a bit more D-Stacky, but I honestly haven't missed XF at all during NATL. EU also plays on Sunfire, which I thought was pretty disdained as a comp map.
So what do you think? Where did EU go too far? Where did they not go far enough?
|
|
|
Post by verticle on Apr 9, 2013 21:07:49 GMT -5
I'm against all of the changes pretty much besides inf
-I think the game plays better with no mines -safety third doesn't bother me -x fire does not play well (although I'm open to playing it with the new ruleset-I haven't much yet, maybe once or twice) -reach I think should stay, but I'd be interested to see what that game plays like without it.
-not sure what the best way to deal with inf is/it probably needs to be discussed more at length in a topic specific to infs
|
|
|
Post by evonvonrocket on Apr 9, 2013 21:46:07 GMT -5
I agree 100% op
Reach ban hurts inf capping on Drydock and buffs hofs a lil bit. It nerfs cappers as well. I think its a crutch to "reach" slide by the hof without clear, (should be discussed) .
Inf limit is also good because no one likes getting no skilled ganked and stun locked by rogues. 2 infs and a FFFF spamming soldier running a mock route waiting in your base for clear is boring for d and enraging when you die to it.
With our forces combined we can make captain planet of esports rules.
|
|
|
Post by scroom38 on Apr 9, 2013 22:36:55 GMT -5
I agree in the most part with OP.
We only need 1 inf, no X fire, no mines or clays, and pls don't ban my SSF ;-;
I do however think that a test ban of reach and Safety third would be a good idea. Just try it, see how people like it, and we can reinstate one or both of these perks if people don't like the change.
|
|
lazy
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by lazy on Apr 9, 2013 22:39:23 GMT -5
Xfire should be tested, as should ssf ban.
|
|
|
Post by davidbowie on Apr 9, 2013 22:47:38 GMT -5
We should definitely not ban reach. In NA good hofs still get their body blocks 1v1 despite reach, and reach makes the esports so much more beautiful in punts and cluster play.
|
|
|
Post by evonvonrocket on Apr 10, 2013 0:45:45 GMT -5
We should ask some Euros what they think about the Reach ban. At the very least we should try it.
|
|
|
Post by bootswiththefur on Apr 10, 2013 5:07:30 GMT -5
I think we should try the reach ban, but I agree with Bowie that it is a major factor in a lot of the interesting cluster play that goes on. Ideally it would be nice if the flag hitbox was a little larger, but what can you do.
HoFs are still fully capable of getting blocks by positioning themselves correctly and tons of stops are made with concs on the stand anyway.
|
|
|
Post by euro on Apr 10, 2013 7:50:09 GMT -5
We should definitely not ban reach. In NA good hofs still get their body blocks 1v1 despite reach, and reach makes the esports so much more beautiful in punts and cluster play. Watch the 5150 vs vex game again. You even casted it and didn't notice how many times matin managed to get out without ANY clear at all? Watch arx again pls. Esports are more skillful with reach and clusters are more exciting when everyone has the same chance and they're not won because one team had a certain perk and other didn't. Anyway, you should just test it.
|
|
|
Post by vornskr on Apr 10, 2013 8:42:10 GMT -5
and they're not won because one team had a certain perk and other didn't. Having the right perk at the right time is part of being skilled at this game. Cappers should have some chance of getting out cowboy. Saying otherwise essentially requires believing that what a capper does at the stand should have no impact on the outcome: a decent HoF can block a capper without reach all of the time. So without reach it's *entirely* on the LO to clear, and no responsibility rests on the capper for the grab. In other words, removing reach constricts the meta and forces it to be more & more about timed clear.
|
|
|
Post by euro on Apr 10, 2013 10:01:03 GMT -5
There is no right perk for the right time in this case because you never know when you will have to cluster. Banning reach only makes things more equal and interesting. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Iboppz50e4 doing this requires no reach, only skill, and he's doing this against one of the best hofs in game. I think it's better to have a timed clear meta than to have 3 capper one inf meta because if they're as half as good as matin one will get out. Now watch arx game between vex and 5150, I think what matin did there was bullshit and no capper should be able to get out full health with zero clear so often against a hof like guitar guy. Your choice if you want that.
|
|
|
Post by mukhtar1 on Apr 10, 2013 11:51:08 GMT -5
The scene is terrible and I'd much rather come up with our own ruleset that doesn't revolve around everyone having sub 10 ping. (will add later x and y)
|
|
|
Post by davidbowie on Apr 10, 2013 11:53:30 GMT -5
in na we are fine with that. only the best cappers can cowboy like that against good hofs, and its cool seeing who can pull it off. without reach body blocks are way too easy. we have been running reach forever here and no one has had a big issue with it. every good na capper and hof i have talked to about this feels the current hof/capper matchup is pretty balanced since the removal of mines and proxies.
|
|
|
Post by verticle on Apr 10, 2013 12:48:38 GMT -5
We should definitely not ban reach. In NA good hofs still get their body blocks 1v1 despite reach, and reach makes the esports so much more beautiful in punts and cluster play. Watch the 5150 vs vex game again. You even casted it and didn't notice how many times matin managed to get out without ANY clear at all? Watch arx again pls. Esports are more skillful with reach and clusters are more exciting when everyone has the same chance and they're not won because one team had a certain perk and other didn't. Anyway, you should just test it. Using one of the top few cappers in the game as your example is kind of hurting your point. Now if every capper out there was cowboying with reach constantly I'd see your point, but you are just saying that the best cappers in the game can do it. I think that is a good thing.
|
|
|
Post by bootswiththefur on Apr 10, 2013 16:10:34 GMT -5
Maybe the cappers in NA aren't as strong as in euro, or we have better HoFs, but I have never seen reach being a huge issue. A good unmolested HoF who misses the block will still be able to put a shot on the capper if they are spotted making them chaseable or snipeable. I appreciate the importance the NA meta places on this awareness.
|
|